What would it take to make farming and the management of land aligned with the needs of the ecology, contributing to more biodiversity? This topic is explored in conversation with Joshua Finch who has hands on experiences from working with these questions through his small farm operations, first following permaculture principles at Lillklobb in the middle of the buzz of Espoo in Kilo and later setting up a food forest project in another part of Espoo. More information about Joshua's work can be found his website: https://finchagroecology.com/. This material was produced by students in the course Sustainable Organising at Hanken School of Economics in the spring term of 2023. The group work assignment of the course was to design a podcast show and produce an episode about a topic related to sustainable organising. The interviews were done in February 2023.